Wikinfo:Village pump/Archive 4

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Clarification

Does the statement "The action you have requested is limited to users in the group user." mean "Please sign in to edit this page"?

Probably, but you don't disclose the action you requested. Fred 10:59, 15 January 2008 (EST)

If not signed in and clicking on a redlink discussion page the above message comes up. Jackiespeel 12:57, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Then, in essence, that's what it means and should be changed to say that. Fred 09:13, 25 January 2008 (EST)

There is an article to be written on comparing and contrasting wikis - slightly more detailed than Wikipedia's "List of Wikis" - as some of them operate on different philosophies. Jackiespeel 05:45, 15 January 2008 (EST)

It is a rare Wikipedia article that cannot be substantially improved. Fred 10:59, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Nettles

As I have no wish to distress WHEELER, I have removed the link from Nettle. However, I do feel that his views display a certain lack of SPOV to my views. And I strongly contest his implication that Indian culture had no useful input to Western civilisation (doesn't he use "Arabic" i.e. Indian numerals?) and that his viewpoint is synonymous with the laws of nature and that anything diverging from them is unnatural and needs suppression. However, let us all agree to differ and get back to work please.--User:Taxwoman 07:47, 25 January 2008 (EST)

German Wikinfo celebrates its 200th article

German Wikinfo has now got its 200th article. This article is about Ibingen, a village in the Province of Luxembourg in Belgium. Note that I use the German placenames, which is unacceptable on German Wikipedia because the German Wiki is dominated by left-wing people. It may come as a surprise for those who don't know much about German politics that they are often anti-semitic, too. An article which has been saved from German Wikipedia (and now hosted by German Wikinfo) is about Yachad, a group of Jewish gays in Germany. It was deleted because it was about a Jewish association and, therefore, not notable. The German start page is here.- Mr Mancala 06:49, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Same on English WP actually; you can't have "Category:Jewish mathematicians" say.--User:Taxwoman 07:27, 12 February 2008 (EST)

The German language articles are pre-fixed with "Deutsch", a system introduced by User:StarofLight. More important than to change a system which is already used in more than 220 articles would be to recover the French articles written by User:Alencon. Their problems seem to be the apostrophes in the header (after what it seems a software change early in 2007). There are two solutions: either they must be deleted and then re-uploaded, or they must be moved to something like ...(Francais). - Mr Mancala 04:00, 30 January 2008 (EST)

It's kind of the other way around, it the articles had been made with the new software they would work fine, but having been made with the old cranky software, they don't. They are all right here but would take a great deal of hand work in the database to recover. Fred 04:53, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Don't worry. I will do it. French is just a most beautiful language. - Mr Mancala 05:47, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Can not edit

I can not edit again in the National Socialism article. Can this be fixed, please. I need to add to the page and sign it.WHEELER 12:48, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Yes, it seems the blacklist is back. Fred 17:09, 4 February 2008 (EST)

I have sent a note to the ibibio staff. It may be helpful to reload the site by going to http://wikinfo.org Fred 17:38, 4 February 2008 (EST)

I am checking daily. As of today, it is still not usuable to edit.WHEELER 15:12, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Why has my article been deleted please?

I am trying to post an article on an original hypothesis. I tried it on Wikipedia and it was removed as 'no credible source'. I thought Wikinfo was a bit more relaxed and tried to post it. It stayed up for a few days so I have tried to add references. When I added a link to a Wikipedia article that was relevant my whole article was deleted!

This is my own original work. It involves some novel thinking on the creation of the universe and I would like to develop it to challenge the current consensus, which I think is wrong.

Why was my article deleted please? (Polarised Big Bang Hypothesis)

Regards Bob Bwallum 15:16, 10 February 2008 (EST)

You seem to have deleted it yourself by accident. I have restored it. Fred 16:03, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Thanks for the response Fred. All I did was to SAVE PAGE it, I certainly did not delete it. This is not the first time either. I am running Firefox on Ubuntu 7.10, would that make a difference? Bwallum 04:53, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Surely a non-admin should not be able to delete a page?--User:Taxwoman 07:32, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I think you blanked it rather than deleting it.--User:Taxwoman 07:35, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Of, course, but blanking is deleting (in the generic sense). Fred 10:05, 12 February 2008 (EST)

The same thing happened to me when I tried to add the link to wikipedia Bob. I think I must have put the link in the wrong place in the article and it blanked the page. We must all remember to read the instructions carefully before adding the links. AaronCarson 09:09, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I am new here, introduction?

I have worked on Anarchopedia, Wikipedia, and MeatballWiki. I am new here at Wikinfo, so how do I begin? --Jonas Rand 00:59, 29 February 2008 (EST)

The mechanics are very similar to Wikipedia, except that when you start a new article you get some peripheral stuff that allows you to search for a topic elsewhere and acknowledge if an article is copied from Wikipedia. The main thing to remember is that we work on SPOV rather than NPOV.--User:Taxwoman 07:05, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Begin by picking a topic you're interested in and publish information that is useful or interesting to our users. Importing an article you can find from another open source publication may be useful as a starting point. There is a great deal more freedom here, but, as always, the emphasis is on excellence. So, briefly, do some kind of good work and Wikinfo will be better, you will be praised, feel good about yourself, and civilization will advance. Fred 09:01, 29 February 2008 (EST)

A very annoying aspect of Wikinfo

Wikinfo intends to be multilingual or should I say it is multilingual? Is it really multilingual? - The vast majority of our articles are in English (usually articles which hadn't been edited for years and often don't work properly when you try to edit just one chapter, with German Umlauts or French letters don't displaying at all). I find it very annoying to see German words redirected to English words, articles on even minor German placenames in English, a new article started on "Geist" in English. I rework all the German language articles now so that we all can use one system (no longer prefixing them with "Deutsch:"). When I encounter a non-German placename (French, Dutch, English ...) or the name of a non-German person, I write [[XXX(Deutsch)|XXX]] even if there is not yet an English, Dutch or French article. I believe that we need respect towards other languages and don't "occupy" these words. So I have moved "Geist" to "Geist (english)" and "Aachen" to "Aachen (english)" (changing the links to these articles as well). BTW, there was a non-working link "Geist (philosophy)" too. Besides respect we need some order if our links will really work some day and if we want non-English people really feel welcome at Wikinfo. Mr Mancala 05:19, 1 March 2008 (EST)

With respect to the problem of section editing, if you edit the whole page once, then section editing will work. I don't know of any software fix which would avoid the problem. We were very lucky to be able to convert any files back to mediawiki successfully; incompatibilities were growing by the day. The problem with character display was associated with Getwiki. We just have to work our way out of that. When articles were imported with Getwiki or created with it, because Getwiki used a different system from Mediawiki for coding letters they don't display properly. As to the titles of article, I would prefer first come, first serve. Generally, German and English words differ in spelling. If they don't, one or the other will have to be under a distinguishing title. I would wait until there is a German article to replace the English one before moving the English one. Fred 08:52, 1 March 2008 (EST)

We should definitely restore the Aachen article, if only as a redirect to [[Aachen English until there is a German one. And please let's use a capital E for English.--User:Taxwoman 07:09, 7 March 2008 (EST)

English. There, happy now? lol Terryeo 09:49, 7 March 2008 (EST)

Thanks :-) --User:Taxwoman 08:27, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

Eri?

Erm... I've come across a new article called Eri posted by User talk:Jeff. I realise that Wikinfo's content policy is somewhat more permissive than Wikipedia's, but this article seems to be approaching patent nonsense. Has anyone else seen this? --AaronCarson 16:27, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Good eye. It belongs on a User page, not posing as an article. - Nhprman 18:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Problems Creating an Article

I created an article called "Samhain" about the ancient Celtic festival, and it blanked out when I tried to save it. Anybody know what I can do about this?

There is nothing in the history of the article. To avoid losing material you might save more often and copy contents before you hit save. Fred Talk 10:51, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I noticed that in the history too. I'll have to remember to keep saving them. After reading "Halloween" the article may be redundant anyway. --AaronCarson 10:56, 13 March 2008 (EDT) I think i know why that article got blanked. I had been deleting the message about the wiki template at the bottom, but I didn't realise I had to deleat the wiki in the squiggly brackets contained in the message about the SS template as well. Because I didn't delete that wiki template as well, it restored the wiki template (for importing articles from Wikipedia), and prompted me for the verification code. That verification code thingy, (combined with sessin timeout) is the thing that blanked out my article. Either there's a bug in it, or I typed in the wrong code, and they only give you one chance. When I deleted everything except the SS template, it saved my article. I hope this is a bit helpful.--AaronCarson 13:07, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Just leave the templates (and the associated comments) in, unless it is a one word article as this was. In that case change them to {{SSS}} or {{WikiS}}, unless the article is not imported. In that case substitute {{SSS}} for {{WikiS}}, if it is a long article. The presence or absence of the templates, or comments, does not affect saving the page. Fred Talk 13:12, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

"The presence or absence of the templates, or comments, does not affect saving the page." I agree, but is it possible that the verification code prompter could be causing a problem with saving the page?--AaronCarson 13:40, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

I'll try editing under a regular account and watch what happens. Fred Talk 14:09, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Thanks Fred, you are too patient.--AaronCarson 14:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Nah, I'm just a doofus. Doofus 14:37, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

That makes two of us. Wrote a sentance in the Samhain article. If you wouldn't mind leaving it up for now, I'll rewrite what I wrote before in Word, and post it tomorrow. I'll try to keep the content fresh, so we're not having too much overlap from the Halloween article. --AaronCarson 14:42, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

You were right about the capcha, disabled for now. Doofus 14:48, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

As a practical solution, I've found that if will preview, it will save. I've taken to doing everything I'm going to, previewing to quality check. Then preview and immediately save. That has always worked. Terryeo 23:55, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Did something just happen?

Did we just have a whoopsie with the internal database? I couldn't open the Wikinfo sight for about five minutes, and I got some sort of internal database error. It mentioned something about Wikimedia. --AaronCarson 17:11, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

I couldn't either. Did it say something like "Wikinfo has a problem"? I don't think it's too much to worry about. This happens on Wikipedia every now and then I believe. Maximillion Pegasus 17:16, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Yeah that must have been it. The wikimedia software has a lot to deal with. I don't know all the technical terminology, but I gather there's bound to be the odd hiccough with all the wikis running off of wikimedia.--AaronCarson 17:22, 18 March 2008 (EDT)I wonder if Fred's locked out.--AaronCarson 17:27, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Yes, I was locked out too. Such incidents are not caused by our activity, but by extensive hits being made on the database by a spider operating either here or on another Ibiblo site using the same MYSQL databases. Fred Talk 20:02, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Spidering

Does Wikinfo have an article on Spidering? If not, perhaps one of our more technically minded users could write one. Users might find it helpful to understand some of these terms.--AaronCarson 07:14, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

See Web crawler. Fred Talk 17:05, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

WP events?

When did we start advertising Wikipedia events? Their Manhattan conference is now being advertized at the top of my Watchlist. Why is this occurring here? This is not a Wikipedia clone, and certainly isn't owned by the Wikimedia foundation. But that's the message such copy-catting sends. I would urge deletion of that template. - Nhprman 18:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Which template is it? Fred Talk 19:59, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

I've searched the "recent" list and cannot tell. I see there's been a blizzard of imported templates, and not all of them seem to make sense for Wikinfo or mesh with the policies here, IMO. - Nhprman 23:21, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

I'll look for it, but can't see any such ad. Fred Talk 00:25, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

FYI below is a screenshot of that Wikipedia notice appearing in my Wikinfo "my watchlist". I find it highly inappropriate here. - Nhprman 21:41, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

(click for larger version)

Yep, there it is, but I can't make it do that. That makes it real hard to fix. Fred Talk 22:09, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

No doubt it will! LOL. Hmmm. I have no solution to offer you, either, since I have no idea how it got there. - Nhprman 22:48, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

It has something to do with the MediaWiki code itself. My watchlist is coming up with the "You live in the SF bay area, come join the SF mailing list". I think we should send a bug report to the MediaWiki devs about it. --w^L^{<speak·check>} 22:55, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Template Problems

If you are an editor who uses Microsoft Internet Explorer, and have a good understanding of templates, please have a look at the following templates and the pages that link to them. Template:Coord/dms2dec Template:Coord. These coordinate templates cause the pages that are linked to them to display incorrectly in Microsoft Internet Explorer. The result is displaced text, and displacement of the tabs at the top of the page. I've deduced that these two templates may be problematic, but all the Coord templates should probably be checked. The error message - Expression error: Unexpected operator, Expression error: Unexpected operator - also displays on these template pages, which may be pertinent, or not. I don't know. If you have any questions, or need further information about the problem, please contact me on my talk page.--AaronCarson 13:57, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

I have deleted the two templates above. Does it help? You, as an administrator, may continue to delete the templates used on that page until you find the right one. Please restore all the others after you are done. Fred Talk 20:13, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

It helps immensely. As far as I can tell, all the pages that were linked to those templates are now displaying perfectly. I'd like confirmation from mr. WHEELER though. Were those error messages relevant at all? Did they show up in Safari?--AaronCarson 04:44, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

I just wanted to report that this problem is back again. We recently imported some more coordinate templates and the articles that are linked to them do not display correctly in Internet Explorer. I have not been able to isolate which of the coordinate templates is the offending one, but the article Mount Vesuvius displays particularly badly. Anyone with a working knowledge of templates please assist.--AaronCarson 17:58, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Have you tried dismissing the header? Fred Talk 19:22, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

It is displaying appropriately with Firefox/2.0.0.14 right now. Terryeo 23:52, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes, the problem only occurs with the internet explorer type browser. I'm not quite sure what a header is Fred, that might be another word for the wiki language list, but there was a message about Wikinfo welcoming original research and such, which had been colliding with that globe graphic which shows up at the top right of some of the articles with the coord templates. When I dismissed the message, naturally, it didn't collide anymore, because it wasn't there. However the globe colliding with that message is only the tip of the iceberge of this problem. Some articles appear wholly scrambled like the Mount Vesuvius one. When I get some time to sift through all the templates, I'll try to root it out. --AaronCarson 16:52, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

A Funny Infobox Template

I don't know if this [1] is of any use to us here at Wikinfo, probably not, as it doesn't seem to have any constructive uses, but it is hilariously funny.--AaronCarson 17:28, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

We welcome original research. Fred Talk 17:59, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Merge accounts

I noticed that Bert Carpenter has a number of other accounts which he created by accident. I offered to merge them together, by deleating their content and adding it to his current one, and he agreed, but I realised that this action would probably not cover the user contributions from the other accounts. Any suggestions from senior sysopes would be appreciated. The other accounts are, User:Albert P. Carpenter User:Albert p carpenter User:Albert p. carpenter. There are also two more accounts of his on the special user list which are red. He has edited from those accounts, but there's nothing on the userpages, so I didn't know how they might be deleated.--AaronCarson 17:09, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

He's just going to have to live with it. Hand work in the database that I'm not good at. Fred Talk 17:12, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

The German Wikinfo celebrates its 300th article

The German section of Wikinfo has now 300 articles. The 300th article is about Nuces castellatae, a Roman children's game. The German start page is here.- Mr Mancala 14:14, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Congratulations!, and mostly original work too! Fred Talk 14:38, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Caution

This new user/editor Nothing444 posted the Wikinfo welcome page on his own talkpage and then asked for adminship. Could have been an accident but if it wasn't reaks of a Jonasish sense of humour. Just keep an eye.--AaronCarson 01:58, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes, but keep in mind that Jona remains welcome to edit, so long as he wears his Wikinfo hat. Fred Talk 07:35, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh, I didn't realise that actually. I'm glad to hear it.--AaronCarson 19:08, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

WHEELER and Taxwoman

The dispute between WHEELER (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves) and Taxwoman (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves) will be considered at Wikinfo:Dispute resolution/Wheeler and Taxwoman. Any Wikinfo editor may participate. Fred Talk 09:32, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

No anon edits

Since I only joined in March, I do not know all the history here. I was just curious as to why you have to have an account to edit? Maximillion Pegasus 12:21, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

A little too much vandalism for us to handle. We're not quite 24/7. Fred Talk 13:58, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

I like it like this! I was thrilled to see that one has to have an account!! I coo-coo for coca puffs over this!!! Oohhooo! I don't believe that there should ever be anonymous edits! WHEELER 17:39, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh, I see. Thanks :) Maximillion Pegasus 22:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

I agree. I think anon edits are not productive and allow - even encourage - experimentation or vandalism. Taking that extra step to register implies that someone is serious about leaving a positive mark here, and not just grafitti on a wall that will be quickly washed away by others. - Nhprman 09:39, 8 April 2008 (EDT) The main loss is "typos etc corrected in passing." There will always be some the occasional instance of someone wishing to make a comment/ask a question without using their normal pen name - but people will always find a way around this. There might be an argument for a notice board for "corrections, comments and additions" by people who are passing by and do not wish to sign in at the moment. Jackiespeel 11:34, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

10 things...

As there is 10 Things You Did Not Know About Wikipedia could there be a similar article about Wikinfo?

Yes, might cut down on the surprises. Fred Talk 13:06, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

First entry along the - same rules as other wikis (courtesy, quote sources etc) but - if you have points of issue with a page (not being errors etc) write the counterargument? Jackiespeel 14:14, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

featured articles

An article that i wrote a while back, "morphogenic network" is featured on the main page and has been for some time. I've written other articles since then which are "Original research which addresses significant problems". I feel that some of these articles deal with more significant problems than the featured one does, and are more practical. The "DFDL.VHDL" article that i've been working on a lot lately strikes me as addressing a particularly significant problem: The language used today to design circuitry is really old and it shows - a much more flexible and succinct language could increase the speed at which new circuits are designed, as well as the creativity put into them. If i had one article featured i would choose that one. (My second choice would be S.T.E.P., not morphogenic network.) In any case, that list hasn't been updated in a while, and I think maybe it could use some new articles. Kevin Baas2 16:40, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

Bronze Drum Image Licence

We are currently looking for an editor with a working understanding of the Vietnamese Language who could help us to translate the following page. [2] We would like to verify an image's copywrite licence, so that we can use it here on Wikinfo. The image is of a Song Dynasty Bronze Drum, quite lovely and would greatly enrich our encyclopedia. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Wikinfo:Administrators' noticeboard

I have created Wikinfo:Administrators' noticeboard to discuss administrative matters. Fred Talk 10:40, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Images, fair use or not

I'd like to add the image of the movie poster for A Mighty Wind A Mighty Wind but not sure if this is considered fair use here... comments or policy on this, please. Will Dockery 15:53, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Wikinfo can use an image helpful to its nonprofit educational purpose. Fred Talk 16:44, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

The image in the link above was the one I intended to put with the A Mighty Wind entry... which I assume is acceptable. I'll look through the archives for similar usages for any special notices that might be needed.Will Dockery 14:52, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

I thought this was probably the case, but after seeing the way Wikipedia is wiping out images that would seem to be usuable, publicity promo shots and whatnot, I thought I'd ask just for the record. Will Dockery 14:53, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

Wikipedia tries to make its material available for commercial use, which the GFDL permits. Fred Talk 22:45, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

I read somewhere recently that someone was even planning to put Wikipedia out in a book form, though I haven't come across anything about that again... interesting idea. Will Dockery 23:35, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

A one volume selection of articles from the German Wikipedia is being published. Fred Talk 00:11, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

New project

I have started a new project on German Wikinfo. A few years ago I wrote a large book manuscript on abstract strategy games. It will be re-edited to fit into Wikinfo. More than 200 original articles (all in German) will be published on Wikinfo for the first time. Their copyright will be: © Wikinfo. By: Ralf Gering. Under the CC by-sa 2.5 license. The first three of them are Sunjang Baduk (Korean Go), 1000-Volt-Go and Pair Go. - Mr Mancala 01:56, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Excellent, and I see a link to the copyright license at the bottom of the page. Fred Talk 05:34, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

International Wikinfo

We got 500 non-English articles with the recent addition of Hexago (Deutsch) (= 1.2 % of all Wikinfo articles are NOT in English). - Mr Mancala 04:27, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Importing Wikipedia AfD'ed Articles

I would like to start a project to import Wikipedia articles that are about to be deleted. I'm not talking about importing vandalism or nonsense articles or things sort - the imports would be articles that are otherwise fine, but just run into trouble with Wikipedia's silly notability guidelines or original research policies.

Would this be acceptable to the Wikinfo community, and would anyone else be interested in helping? The procedure is pretty simple, just check Wikipedia's Article For Deletion Page, and copy over the article that is about to be deleted. AfD Hero 11:35, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

There is no objection, we do it all the time. Focus on interesting informative articles however. Fred Talk 11:38, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

I was just thinking about doing it for all articles that aren't blatant spam or the like - maybe 50 articles a day or so. Obviously I want to run this by you guys first since I'm new here. AfD Hero 11:44, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

That would be fine. Fred Talk 11:49, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Wikinfo on Wikipedia

Why was the English article deleted? Where can I find a link to the discussion? BTW, the German article on Wikinfo is also going to be deleted! (ongoing discussion) - Mr Mancala 12:19, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

[3] AfD Hero 12:32, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

The deletion of the English language Wikinfo article is yet another example of why Wikipedia FAILS as an all-inclusive encyclopedia. Another example is that it took SIX NOMINATIONS for them to corral enough Deletionists to come to an Article Fore Deletion page and vote for the elimination of this article, throwing up all kinds of objectsions by citing many cleverly worded Deletionist-friendly essays on WP to bolster their arguments. It's truly a case study in Wikipedia Deletionism at its worst.- Nhprman 14:56, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

I've re-written the German article on Wikinfo to expose the evil of Wikipedia more clearly. -Mr Mancala 15:01, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

We could as well ;-))) vote whether or not keep Simple English Wikipedia here (: Alencon 09:58, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Any such vote would violate our policy. Basically, any regular contributor can add almost anything. Fred Talk 10:06, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Alencon don't be childish. Probably it was just a joke. The coming deletion of the German Wikinfo article (on German Wikipedia) doesn't really matter, since it wasn't read much anyway. It would be great, however, to have the article back on the English Wikipedia. BTW. Alencon, it would be great to have more French articles - even if they would be "just" imported. - Mr Mancala 10:10, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm sure Alencon was being facetious. Considering that I just had to add facetious here, and considering that I'm an Inclusionist, I would be voting against deleting pretty much ALL articles at this point. There is much to add here. - Nhprman 11:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Please notice I was careful to add smileys twice above. Alencon 13:55, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm aware of several good articles here that were deleted on Wikipedia (I wrote or contributed to some myself). It's very much a strength of this place.--User:Taxwoman 12:40, 25 May 2008 (EDT)